Canadian Tuxedo Optional ([info]michaelpop) wrote,
@ 2008-03-20 11:42:00
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Hey, you gotta pay your dues before you pay the rent.
It's the first day of spring, and also 3 months since I turned 27, and a random stranger has yet to inquire how old I am. That would explain why just the other day I had to pause and think about how old I was. The revelation came thusly: Oh shit, I'm not 26! It would seem that the older you get the less people pay attention to things like age. Sometimes I forget that some of my friends are, like, in their 30s! A few years ago that would've seemed so old to me, but when you're staring down the barrel of 30 it stops being so funny. (Also, you're reminded of how fast time flies.) Amazing how just a few years can entirely change your perspective. The good news is that age isn't important anyway, right? Right. But I will say that I'm (probably overly) excited that my friends and I are entering the "marriage/baby" portion of our lives.

I'm flying out to Jacksonville tonight. The reason I'm going out there this particular weekend is because one of Lindsey's friends is getting married and Lindsey really wanted me to be her date. Our first wedding together, aww. Seeing as how we're in a very serious relationship, I'm sure we'll both be taking mental notes and such. (Oh, and friends? The good news is that we'll have an open bar. The bad news is you'll have to fly to Florida.) We've both been to our share of weddings, but none of the ones I've been to have ever been for close friends. So I think it's interesting to note that even though we're about the same age (she's 6 months younger) that a good majority of her friends (who are the same age) are already married and in some cases pregnant. I don't know what it means (if anything), but fuck, my friends and I are totally lagging by comparison. I mean, sure, some of my friends are living with their SOs, but none of them are even engaged yet. I know it's going to start happening soon, though, but before it does I really, really want to start a betting pool.

So even though no one's married or knocked up (yet!), at least people are cohabitating, which is step one. Or step two after "being in a long-term relationship". I'll be joining the fray come July when Lindsey moves out here and I'm nothing less than completely fucking pumped to the extreme. Originally we'd discussed moving into a new place together, but ultimately we realized that it's way more practical for her to move in with me first. Coming to that decision was a huge relief, because as much as I'd like to live closer to my friends, I also love my apartment and being so close to work. Also, I loathe moving. Of course, this signals the end to my luxurious bachelor's life, but I suppose one can only maintain a college dorm decorating aesthetic for so long. I just hope she lets me keep my Alfie poster up. Maybe if I promise to get it framed?

When I was younger it never crossed my mind that cohabitation was taboo. I always figured I'd live with my future wife before getting married. It's sort of like how not having sex before marriage was the most ludicrous notion ever. That just seems like a recipe for disaster on every level. So to me, cohabitation is a logical progression. But that's because I'm not a religious zealot. I suppose that's where the term "living in sin" comes from. I checked, and did you know that it's still technically illegal to cohabitate in 7 states? Including Florida! I mean, no one's going to jail for it, but still, the fact that there are still laws on the books for this kind of thing in the year 2008 blows my mind.

Apparently there are all kinds of statistics that say couples who live together before marriage are more likely to break up or get divorced, or to interpret it another way, take a look at all the couples you know who live together and 4 out of 5 of them aren't going to make it. That may be true, but tell me it's not worth taking that risk in exchange for cheaper rent and morning sex? You can't.


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[info]nowaitbutlisten
2008-03-20 07:12 pm UTC (link)
1) Are you saying you've already decided to get married in Florida? WHY?!?! FLORIDA?!

2)In terms of "people who live together before marriage get divorced" I think that statistic doesn't speak for itself. The way I see it is, people who don't live together first are probably super religious nutjobs who probably think divorce is also a sin and live together in miserable relationships just because they think they have to. basically, people who think living together also think divorce is an option whereas people who think cohabitation is wrong probably think divorce is wrong, period. different values/different outcomes.

ANYWAY. Yeah...what?

As a side note, and this isn't a diss but just an observation, I really don't think people put the amount of thought into their life that you do. I think "forming a serious relationship" and "moving in together" are for most people instinctive actions that sorta just happen without a lot of consideration, but man....you really work it out. A MARRIAGE BETTING POOL?

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 07:30 pm UTC (link)
It just makes more sense to do it in Florida since that's where her family is. Not that you guys aren't family, but you know what I mean.

I think I understand what you mean. I wonder if they keep a statistic on "married but would divorce in a heartbeat if they didn't think it'd keep them out of heaven".

It has been previously noted that perhaps I plan things out to an unreasonable/unnecessary degree, but that's just how I roll. You can let things work themselves out or you can take control. I like the comfort that comes with operating with a road map. It's not like every single detail's been worked out, but at least I know where I stand, and where I'm headed.

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[info]redelvis
2008-03-20 07:35 pm UTC (link)
iz good deal, they get marriage, we get you two, WE WINZ.

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 07:46 pm UTC (link)
Awww. MARRY ME.

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[info]fakedheartbeat
2008-03-20 07:14 pm UTC (link)
Maybe there's a higher rate of divorce among couples who co-habitate simply because there are more couples who live together before they get married.
Another possible explanation is that couples who don't live together before getting married are often religious, and possibly more likely to try and keep things together for the sake of Jesus.
Or maybe I'm wrong and my relationship is doooooooomed.

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 07:32 pm UTC (link)
I think you're right on both counts, so no worries! We tried our hardest (heh) to seduce Johnny with our Californian hottness and he still went home with you. So I think you're golden.

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[info]jnny_enkeli
2008-03-21 01:57 am UTC (link)
although it was 'hard' getting my boner onto the plane as 'carry on'. They seemed pretty adament about having me 'check it' with my other luggage... It took me whipping it out before they realized...

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[info]nowaitbutlisten
2008-03-20 07:15 pm UTC (link)
Also, I would bet any amount of $$ that you a) already bought & read that book, b) have it on order or c) you found that while googling "co-habitation" articles for this lj post and you really wanna go buy it

LOL! P.S. Let me read it after you. Then we can start with "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus". Not kidding. I really wanna read that. I've heard it's saved relationships.

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 07:34 pm UTC (link)
Hahah, yeah, I found that book through a little Google search, but I read some excerpts and no way would I buy that book. It's written by one of those religious types, so you know it's not exactly fair-and-balanced.

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[info]redelvis
2008-03-20 07:38 pm UTC (link)
the errrth 6000 yrz old, never figgurr it ouutt how or why tingz way theyz are like no dino bonez wiff humanz bytt iz TRUE.

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[info]jnny_enkeli
2008-03-21 01:59 am UTC (link)
teh funnyz0rs!

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[info]redelvis
2008-03-20 07:35 pm UTC (link)
yoh dis 'ere the newz, themz in flowida, yah i sed it, iz BORED... makin' teh babiez and marryin' and shitz.. itz trues mang i know onez... we iz here havin' too much F.U.N. to tink aboot thah shitz... we stayinz togethaz becuz of CHOIZE... PRO CHOIZE... juz sayin' we not behind.. theyz aHED.

themz bush fanz corrrupt cant countz.

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 07:39 pm UTC (link)
Hahahaha, RAD ACCENT. I can't tell if it's gangsta or country.

And yeah, I'm sure that lifestyle differences account for a lot of why us city-folk aren't rushing to the alter. I'm just sayin'!

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[info]redelvis
2008-03-20 07:44 pm UTC (link)
I'm not sure what the accent is either. It's kind of haxor gangster... like a nerd that watches too much Ali G that grew up in the ghetto so he had to join a gang but he goes home to hack computers and start flame wars in message boards.

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[info]jnny_enkeli
2008-03-21 01:59 am UTC (link)
O.H. Oringal H4xx0r!

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[info]so_gracefully
2008-03-20 08:20 pm UTC (link)
the psychology-related statistical data analysis signal lit up in the sky so i came over to see what was going on!

the problem with this statistic about people who cohabitate are "more likely" to break up is really not something to get too distressed over. the thing about this is that it's correlational data rather than data supporting causality, which means there is no evidence to support the idea that living together MAKES people more likely to break up, just that in the sample taken, a higher number of people lived together AND ALSO broke up. what is most likely is that the pool of cohabitators they are looking at is just a regular sample of the population in which more people in general are choosing to live together before marriage, and so it just looks like there's some kind of relationship between living together and then breaking up, when there really is just a higher number overall of people who live together. it's just like the statistic about half of all marriages ending in divorce--that statistic is taking into account not only first marriages, but third marriages, fifteenth marriages, etc. that happen in any given time period. so the data looks like it's something other than what it is.

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[info]so_gracefully
2008-03-20 08:22 pm UTC (link)
the first sentence doesn't make sense so delete "the problem with" in that part. ha.

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 09:37 pm UTC (link)
Exactly. I definitely take those statistics with a grain of salt. Especially because I don't think they have any practical application to our own individual experiences. How does the 50% divorce rate really apply to me? It doesn't. Just because some people break up from living together first does not mean that it's going to happen to me.

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[info]clankyrobot
2008-03-21 02:36 am UTC (link)
thank you for writing this! i was about to, but you beat me to the punch! :) i <3 statistics, but i am saddened by the fact that so many people just don't know how to interpret them.

also, hi michael, i'm your friend, and i'm ENGAGED! did you forget?

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[info]swth
2008-03-20 08:32 pm UTC (link)
I had to think about how old I was earlier too. And it still matters how old I am because when the other two youngest coworkers eventually leave for greener pastures, I believe I'll be the only person under 30 in my office. That keeps me young.

And you really don't have any friends who are married and/or carrying? I just figured with your base, you'd know a few. I mean, I have like twenty friends and two of them are expecting. And one of my friends is getting married this summer for the second time! (He's 27.) Crazy.

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[info]meropa
2008-03-20 08:39 pm UTC (link)
Living together... good luck with it. Communication is the key, and such.

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 09:40 pm UTC (link)
That's what I hear!

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[info]businesscasual
2008-03-20 08:44 pm UTC (link)
Son, my shit is going to be 29 YEARS OLD on Sunday, which is blowin' my mind. That's looking down the barrel CRAZY. I thought I'd be super married with 900 kids by now.

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 09:46 pm UTC (link)
HAPPY EARLY BIRFDAY, MILLZ! You's about to hit your PRIME!

I just had a vision of you and your 900 future kids and holy shit, they are going to be the coolest little fuckers ever!

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[info]businesscasual
2008-03-20 09:56 pm UTC (link)
Aww, thanks MP! Those kids are going to be a fuckin' quarter Asian ARMY!

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[info]sinca
2008-03-20 09:16 pm UTC (link)
Out of my hometown friends, I was the LAST person to get married at the ripe old age of 26. Hell, my best friend from high school already had two kids. But out my close friends that I met as I got older, I have several who are single and only two that are married. I never understood the "hurry up and get married!" mentality.

But - I will admit that I did not want to live with Art before we got married. I enjoy the element of surprise! Of course, we practically grew up together so it wasn't a huge adjustment to live with him.

(Gee. THANKS, Baylor.)

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 10:59 pm UTC (link)
I can understand wanting the element of surprise, but not for me, thanks! Personally I don't think that living together takes the shine off of getting engaged/married. I figure once the time's right for that to happen that we'll be able to celebrate it by moving into our first place together. Fresh beginnings and all that.

(Seriously, zero upsets so far. Yawn.)

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[info]sinca
2008-03-20 11:03 pm UTC (link)
Oh! Duh - I meant to add to that comment that obvs, everybody's different and I wasn't trying to sound all Judgey Judge.

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[info]styloroc_2000
2008-03-20 09:43 pm UTC (link)
you know... I was going to post this in my lj a couple of weeks ago, but i simply forgot because I was so involved with my studies -- I was going to school one morning and I left to get to the bus stop earlier than I had planned on, so I went to the convenience store next to the stop. I bought some chocolate milk (it was 8 in the morning...still to early for beer...legally) and when I went to the counter the lady (in her mid-40s) asked if I missed the bus. And I went "Well, it usually gets her a quarter after the hour; it's only five past" and she looked at the book in my hand (public finance) and she goes "oh, I saw the school bus go by, but I guess you're in the university". I was dumbfounded and then she asked if I just got in...I told her I was nearly 29... crazy.

but yeah, I don't really pay attention to my age any more and it probably doesn't help that I don't celebrate my birthday either.

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 11:01 pm UTC (link)
I think it might've been the chocolate milk that gave you away. You should've gotten beer too. But that is pretty crazy. Bless our sexy half-AZN genes, I guess.

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[info]ghostwaltz
2008-03-20 10:11 pm UTC (link)
seriously, i'm not buying those statistics. i can't imagine moving in with someone after getting married and finding out all these weird, random, sometimes annoying habits they have. i'd flip my shit! living with my boyfriend has so far, been the best experience ever. we annoy the crap out of each other sometimes but we laugh at it by the end of the day. i've found that we balance each other out REALLY well. i mean, i knew some of these things before cohabitating, but it's weird yet nice to watch how they play out. he's a neat freak, i'm all about organized chaos. he likes to clean, i like to cook thus he does the dishes. SCORE FOR ME! (note to you: always do the dishes when a lady makes you dinner, dude.) he puts the toilet seat down, doesn't leave dirty clothes on the bathroom floor, and likes my cooking and we have the same taste in music. like, what if you got married and moved in with a dude and he's like "SURPRISE! here's my lionel richie LP collection"? what would you do then? me, well, i would cry.

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 11:14 pm UTC (link)
Having Lindsey stay with me for 17 days over the holidays, while no means a substitute for actually LIVING with someone, at least gave me a pretty good idea of what it'll eventually be like. I already know that I'm the "clean" one (which is like seriously bizarro, right?), and that's fine. As far as the dishes are concerned, that is totally my domain (along with vacuuming); we've already agreed that she'll do the majority of the cooking and I'll do the dishes. We'll trade off on the bathroom. The toilet seat's not an issue either, because I learned at a young age that leaving it up is gross. Since I've been living solo for 18 months, it'll take some time to get back into sharing my space with someone again, but our temperaments are so evenly matched that I doubt it's going to be difficult.

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surprise! here's my train record collection!
[info]heartofkudzu
2008-03-24 02:46 pm UTC (link)
What?!? I want vacuuming to be MY chore! If you're lucky, though, I'll let you take a crack at the Dyson on occasion. You can do any sweeping that needs to happen. I really irrationally hate sweeping! Also, anything that involves a sponge. Sponges are grody! I like dusting, though, so there's that. I totally lucked out with how you are claiming dishes as your domain, however. Yay!

FYI, you totally left the toilet seat up when you were here! Not that I really care...it always amuses me how "OMG he left the toilet seat up" is such a bone of contention with some people, because it's really not an inconvenience AT ALL to take 1.3 seconds to put it down. Plus, you have to take the time to put it up...so what's the big deal?

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[info]ghostwaltz
2008-03-20 10:13 pm UTC (link)
ALSO: i am happy for you!!!! you and lindsey are like the most perfect couple ever.

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 11:15 pm UTC (link)
AWW, THANKS HEATHER!

(We think so too!)

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[info]sonicsuperslide
2008-03-20 10:28 pm UTC (link)
i'm scared to move in with Tony and i am in my early 20's. i just am not sure i want to liove with him. is that wrong when i am in love with him? but i don't want to move in with him??

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[info]michaelpop
2008-03-20 11:19 pm UTC (link)
I don't think it's wrong at all. Speaking from my own experience, the early 20s are kind of a terrible time to be in a serious relationship, because you're still learning so much about yourself and what you want. It's hard enough being in a relationship at that stage without the added strain of living with them. I think the best move in your situation is definitely not to live together.

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[info]sonicsuperslide
2008-03-21 08:26 pm UTC (link)
Thats me right now. i do love him to death but deep down i feel that i moved in with him..we would break up. that scares me a little. if you only knew about the fights we had about this topic. i take your advice....thank you~

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pastahero
2008-03-20 11:27 pm UTC (link)
I'm gonna push for NOT living together. I'm that old-fashioned. Then again, I have no marriage prospects whatsoever.

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[info]01
2008-03-21 05:28 am UTC (link)
i've heard there are just as many statistics that contradict the "4 out of 5" numbers. I'd search for them if it wouldn't interupt my laziness.

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[info]lilypads
2008-03-21 07:47 am UTC (link)
mmm morning sex.

yes, that is what I walked away from this post with, haha.

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[info]murray_street
2008-03-21 06:38 pm UTC (link)
i misss you michael!

and-for what its worth--
just shy of my two year anniversary with jordan, we got a place together.
perhaps it was less weird cause it was new for both of us, not one of us moving into the other's place.
but it was very exciting and there's always stuff to do as far as decorating and organizing and cooking.
this was in september--and since then, everythings been great. i cant imagine what a hassle it'd be if we still lived seperately. we have different schedules for the most part, so theres never overload of together time. its nice to come home to someone and cook meals and watch movies with our cats. WOW i sound gay. did you ever think id turn out like this!?!? :P
anyhow, go for it. its cheaper, theres tons of spontaneous sex, and its cool to see your two personal styles meld together as far as the decor and book/cd/movie collection etc. for instance right now my apartment is covered in guitars and trumpets (him) and kodak 16mm and horse saddle, bridle, etc (me)....
:) ps come to ny this summer with your lady. SERIOUSLY

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[info]themissdawn
2008-03-21 08:28 pm UTC (link)
Your friends are too busy living the good life, man. Marriage... pffft.

The morning sex is totally worth risking a faulty marriage later.

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no more styrofoam coolers for me
[info]forestbleu
2008-03-23 07:03 pm UTC (link)
i think living and dating in the same town for at LEAST a year is important before cohabitation. then you just progress in the direction of cohabitation or you don't.

because right after the first year of dating, all the pretensions BEGIN relax and reality BEGINS to set in. The demons start rearing, and we need to know if we're able to handle them.

sleeping over a lot and having your own space feels healthier than having to learn to live with someone for the convenience of rent and sex. especially with an LDR. if you move to the same town, then you get to just date eachother on a regular basis without the pressure of "forcing it to work" because you HAVE to come home to one another. where's the space for contemplation? how and when will she make time to make her own friends in a new town? it's so important for her to have her own roots here.

i married my LDR after only seeing eachother for weeks (a month max). We dated over 2+ years before he moved out here. but no matter how long you're in an LDR the visits are still like "mini perfect sex ridden vacations". sometimes you have deep emotional exchanges, but you don't live in the same town. living in a new town has it's own pressures, so that in itself will be an adjustment.

so if you're looking for longevity and a smooth transition, i would recommend patience - and being responsible about it. live separately, as responsible individuals. then you both are coming from a place of stability - not codependence. and then when you do move in together, it's a flight, not the landing.

being in an LDR is hard, 'cause all you do is fantasize about being together because you spend so much time apart. (i know!!) but being patient, by not living together right away, gives the relationship time to grown into it's next stages. so much more rewarding and exciting!

i'd really love to see it work for both of you, so i wouldn't let impatience and convenience ruin a lifetime of happiness. just think of styrofoam coolers. after all, what have you got to lose? if you're in it for the long haul, then after a year or so- you'll live together anyway!

of course, these are just my observations from my life. i only wish the best for you both. love, db

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[info]heartofkudzu
2008-03-24 03:09 pm UTC (link)
It's amusing to me that you are all "Lindsey's friends are all married and popping out babies!" when I don't see it that way at all! When I actually sit down and look at it...yeah, MOST of them are in long-term, serious relationships, but only about half (or less) of my straight friends are engaged/married, and most of that has happened really recently. And only Mary is having a baby!

I like thinking about living together. I think we're putting a lot of thought into the decision and all the little details, instead of just throwing caution to the wind and making decisions out of convenience.

But, yeah, morning sex trumps all!

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